Retrograde Planets in the Birth Chart

Do you have any retrograde planets? I do. A retrograde planet is any planet that looks like it is going backwards through the sky. It’s not actually moving backwards though, but because of its orbit and our position in our orbit it gives the appearance of temporarily backtracking its path through the sky. To check and see if you have a retrograde planet in your birth chart go to astro.com > free horoscope > extended chart selection to create your chart. Then, if you look at the table of planet placements you may see an ‘r’ next to a planet’s position, letting you know it is retrograde. Here you can see I have Mars retrograde. The Sun and Moon will never retrograde.

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What does it mean when a planet is retrograde? Some astrology sources will say it makes the energy move backwards, however I prefer to say it moves in a way that is different than the average expression of that planet. Nothing is wrong with you if you have a retrograde planet, but it can make it a little bit more difficult to express that planet in the way the world wants (and often expects) you to. You have your own way of dealing with that energy that not everyone can relate to. Ultimately you have to learn to view the energy in a different light.

During transits, a planet will retrograde going back over a part of the sky it already covered. This gives us a chance to reevaluate the way we have played out that part of the zodiac’s energy. It does this by making the energy pass through us internally first before we project that energy outward. This in a sense forces us to place more value in how we use the planet’s energy in our lives. As an example, Saturn went into retrograde this morning (March 23, 2016) and will keep moving backwards until August 13, 2016. Saturn rules our discipline and structure. It is our career and our pubic self. It’s where we tend to work hard now so we can play hard later. Now that it is retrograde, it is a little bit harder to just create outward structure because first we must use our Saturn energy to assess our own inner structure. This means we have less Saturn energy for outward expression. The structure we create outwardly needs to be carefully thought out because this is not a time for us to waste energy that we don’t have. This is happening in Sagittarius which rules our intuition and our thirst for higher knowledge and expansion. We have to be careful to trust our intuition during this time. Let it led you where it needs you to go. Look to which house has Sagittarius for you to see which house this energy will occur in. Mine is in the sixth house of daily routine and order. I have to relearn how to trust my intuition on a day to day basis. Once Saturn turns direct again, going back over what it just reviewed, we will be so much more ready to create a strong empire for ourselves based on our new found trust in our gut feelings.

If you were born during a retrograde period, that planet’s expression for you naturally expresses inward first. This means you have to take care in learning how to efficiently use that energy in the outward world. If you were born in a Saturn retrograde period, to continue our example, your energy always works the way Saturn Retrograde energy feels like. The way you supply discipline and structure in order to create a career and public self always has to carefully pass through you internally, making where you invest this energy outward very crucial. Normally, it can be hard for you to build up a career and it is possible that people around you get upset at you for not working hard enough or having a big enough career, however a lot of that comes from them not seeing that you have to invest energy in running through you first, so what you put out into the world already feels like overtime. During a Saturn retrograde period, though, you tend to feel a little bit better about responsibilities then everyone else. While those of us with direct Saturn’s are stressing out, trying to adapt to the new way of energy movement, you feel right at home. This is the case for any retrograde period and planet. I have Mars retrograde, so when Mars is doing its reevaluation, I feel right at home, but those around me may be uncomfortable trying to adapt to the different way of expressing Mars.

By being aware of what planets you have retrograde (you may have none, you may have several. No matter how many you have, it’s normal) you are able to better understand what to expect with that energy expression. With my Mars retrograde, asserting myself into the world doesn’t come easy. Physical effort doesn’t come natural either. For me, the energy I have to put myself out there has to pass internally first. When it comes time to assert myself when people disrespect me, it can be challenging, but I have come to appreciate the ability to actually peacefully assert yourself in a partnership without backing down. I’ve also learned to appreciate the way my body moves through the world. I can’t always go to the gym and do a heavy work out every day of the week, but I can do yoga every morning to wake my body up in a way that best works with my introverted Mars energy. I didn’t find out about my birth chart until I was 20 though, so my teenage years were spent with me getting angry at myself for not being able to perform like everyone else. If you understand your retrograde placements it’s easier to be more understanding with yourself, which you can then extend outward to those around you.

When it comes to the sign and house of your retrograde planet, it can often feel like you express the opposite energy in a more unhealthy way. I have Mars in Leo and the second house. Leo rules the ego and a while a typical Leo Mars would be great at standing up for themselves, my Mars naturally wants to act like an Aquarius, putting humanity over my own needs. This is not fair to myself however because I deserve to be able to balance my own needs with how I help others. The second house energy normally brings stability, grounding, and the ability to bring in a lot of money, while the eighth house is abuse, intimacy, and transformations. I have seen a lot of how people can use masculine energy in abusive ways and I tend to spend a lot of natural energy in some of the darker elements of the eighth house. Again, just like the balance of Leo and Aquarius, it is okay for me to use the energy of the eighth house, transformations are great, but I also need to consciously work towards building stability and resources for myself.

To read about how the opposite signs work together you can read my post about balance here. I also have a post about the houses here if you want to incorporate the house your retrograde planet is in as well. I find that I’m often disappointed in the lack of information about how each sign and house placement effects the retrograde planet so I plan on writing about that in the future, so keep an eye out. For now though, I will explain how each planet may work when it is retrograde and you can work to mix that energy with what you know (or can find out) about that sign and house. Hands on learning is the best learning, after all, so don’t be afraid to mess around with it. Astrology is about SELF discovery.

Mercury rules our mind and how we communicate with other people. It is the energy we have to explore the world in short bursts on a day to day basis. A natal Mercury retrograde will make it important to think your words out carefully before speaking. Maybe you tend to stick your foot in your mouth, or have trouble communicating as clearly as you need or want to. This is because Mercury wants you to carefully pass your thoughts through your filter to decide what is truly deserving of being expressed. You have a lot of great thoughts to contribute to the world, but a retrograde Mercury asks you to take the time to carefully refine your message so you say exactly what you need it to say. A lot of musicians have a retrograde mercury, showing that it doesn’t stop you from having a successful voice. You may also find that you really don’t have a lot of energy for the things that are fleeting. Mercury usually moves in rapid bursts, and you can too, but it happens on an internal level first. Your hobbies and your day trips tend to matter because you might not have a lot of energy for them. Mercury also rules our siblings, so it’s possible with this placement that your relationship with them is rocky, though not doomed by any means.

Venus rules partnerships and our ability to balance and harmonize. It also rules love and beauty.  With a Venus retrograde your ability to harmonize and find beauty must first go inward. You have to learn to love yourself and find a partnership with yourself before you can form strong partnerships with others. This means that the energy you have for balancing outward partnerships can feel a little low. It is important that you are careful in selecting the partnerships you select, allowing them to come from a place of self-love. This is a position that will not allow you to just pass through life without learning to love yourself first. You may find that you need a lot of time away from partnerships, or that you really rather not keep that many deep relationships and that is perfectly fine. For you quality over quantity is important. Venus retrograde is a sign that if you are searching for love, which most of us, to start from within. The rest will follow. With retrograde energy, once you learn how to truly manifest it to its highest power, you can do amazing things. You have so much love, so allow yourself to embrace it.

Mars rules your physical energy. It is masculine energy, or the energy we have for the outward world. It’s the energy we have to put our heart into action. When this energy is retrograde, it becomes inward. When you move the energy dedicated towards outward expression and direct it inward things can clash. When it comes to anger, you tend to bottle things up, deeming them not worthy of bringing outwards. This causes things to explode over something small and people are going to be confused about why you are so upset over such a little thing, but that’s because it wasn’t just one little thing, it was a thousand little things that you just tried to ignore. You may find that you often have to internally hype yourself up for physical activity. Ultimately if you’re going to do something that requires any physical strain, it better be worth it. With this placement, you learn how important it is to try to speak up for yourself as you go along. Anger doesn’t have to come out in an explosion like a volcano. Anger can mean walking away until you can find some grounding, and then reproaching the situation in a level way, communicating why you are so upset and how you want to work towards fixing the issue. Take care not to beat yourself up so much, try to direct some of that highly masculine, yet frustratingly introverted energy in some more constructive ways.

Jupiter rules luck and expansion. It is our quest for understanding and our ability to trust our intuition. When Jupiter is retrograde in your birth chart, it can feel like the outward world doesn’t always have your back like it does for others. Finding luck may be a little bit harder for you, but that is because luck isn’t actually luck, its people letting their gut guide them and it working. For you, letting your instincts and intuition lead you somewhere doesn’t come as natural for you as it does for others. It may be harder for you to quiet down all the voices of the world to get to the heart of what your soul is trying to tell you, but as long as you look inward, it is there. Take the time to let yourself expand internally. You have a whole unexplored world inside of you. You may find that your thirst for adventure doesn’t really manifest all that often outward, but it can inward. Listen to what your soul wants, what path it sees for you, and then take care to bring it into the world. You can be lucky too, as long as you truly seek out where your opportunities lie. Learn to ask yourself why and listen to the answers, rather than searching for the truth out in the world. You have everything you need to walk your path, but it starts from within.

Saturn, as mentioned earlier, rules structure and discipline. It represents our father figures, where we learn to get a sense of authority. With a retrograde Saturn, your father may not have been the best at teaching you how to create a career for yourself. For you, it is important to turn inward to find inner discipline and structure. If you try to build a career without first creating your own inward structure it will be hard. You have something great to offer the world and the public, but it is up to you to carefully refine it internally first. Find out what type of structure works for you. You probably won’t be the type of person who agrees with authority, and that is perfectly fine. You can be your own boss, but first you have to define what that means for you. What is the career that you want to build, and what kind of inner structure are you going to have to find to build this career, and then go after it.

Uranus is our ability to challenge society for the good of society. It can be our energy for activism, humanitarianism, rebellion, or innovativeness. It is where we are different. Different tends to challenge the status quo, which can be good. Stagnation can stall progress. Uranus shakes things up so we can get moving again. When this energy is retrograde, it can be hard to stand up for your oddities in the face of society. First you must challenge your own status quo before you can challenge society’s status quo. It is important for you to learn to embrace the unexpected, the weird, and the unconventional in yourself. When you do that, you learn to value inner differences so much more. That gives you a lot more fuel to the fire when you challenge the world. While initially it can be difficult to rebel against your own inner ideals of what is right and what is wrong, once you learn to work with the changes, you can help the rest of society in very powerful ways. Your appreciation for Uranus energy is so much higher, and that is beneficial to the people in and of its self. Until you master this energy, however, you may find a lot of very sudden and internal upheavals. These are signals to you that somethings can no longer work for you, and it is time to move forward.

Neptune tends to blur the boundaries, especially when you are around other people, giving you a chance to truly feel the other person’s soul, typically this requires you to first know your own soul but after you figure yourself out it’s pretty easy to extend out the spiritual understanding of others. When this energy is retrograde, however, it can be harder to understand people on a soul level. First you must blur your own internal boundaries and get to know yourself on an even more inner and personal level than a direct Neptune placement. It may be hard to have a spiritual connection on the outward surface as well, and this is because you must first find that connection inward. You have to first establish your relationship with your own soul before you connect to the collective. There can be a fear of seeing things in a positive light, the proverbial rose colored glasses that Neptune gives us that allows us to take chances on ideas and people that may be worth it needs to be first directed inward. You have to first build up the courage to take a chance on your own soul, and then extend that outward to others. When you begin to look at yourself from a position of understanding and unconditional love, your empathetic connection to others deepens. You have a beautiful ability to find value in human souls, but it must start from your own.

Pluto rules transformations. It is often times where painful things occur: death, abuse, trauma, manipulation, rape, control, or abandonment. It can show where we have been hurt and where we tend to control to prevent further hurt. The goal with Pluto is to learn that control ultimately brings more hurt, and that in actuality we should learn to rely on our personal strength to survive life’s ups and downs rather than trying to prevent the downs all together. When this energy is retrograde, you try to control yourself, rather than others, to avoid pain. You may limit your transformations because you’ve learned to fear loss, and that includes the loss of parts of yourself. It is important for you to embark on these major internal transformation though. You will always be you at your core, that will never change, so trust that these internal changes are what you need. The more you try to control your energy and how you express yourself and where you open up to others, the more you will find yourself being hurt. You may also be afraid of diving into the darkest parts of who you are, however it is important for you to understand these parts of you. If you try to ignore them, you won’t understand how to work with them, giving them more opportunities to hold you back. As you learn to walk through your shadows, you will find intimacy with other people becoming easier. Trusting other people, despite their shadows, because you trust yourself, despite your own shadows, to always be okay, is what truly matters. You can form deep bonds with people, so make sure they come from a place of love and understanding, not of fear and control.

Let me know where your retrograde placements are and how you feel it effects you in the comments! Do you notice any struggles trying to express that energy in a ‘normal’ way? How can you be more understanding of YOUR flow of energy? I love your feedback, it only adds to the knowledge pool at hand.

Positive Energy and Love!

Katie

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23 thoughts on “Retrograde Planets in the Birth Chart

  1. I’m not entirely sure it’s because of Saturn Rx but I’ve been feeling drained and meh since the 23rd. Could also be because I’ve chosen that day to quit coffee though. I’ve got Saturn Rx in Scorpio, Uranus Rx in Sagittarius, Neptune Rx in Capricorn and Pluto Rx in Scorpio. I don’t use the outer planets because I don’t have much faith in them but you can probably say that this is exactly what someone with a Uranus Rx would say. I guess the entire combination of so many retrogrades isn’t the best or at least doesn’t feel great. If and that’s a big if for me, the outer planets do have an influence, they’re the part of my chart that make me a square peg in a world of round holes. Makes sense?

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    1. The outer planets are actually my favorite! I feel like the inner planets are great for describing people, but if you actually want to help heal people you have to tackle the outer planets. They tend to be so much heavier though. Which houses are yours in? Believe it or not, I find your amount of Rx placements quite common. It may make you feel different and like you don’t fit in, but I guarantee you if you look hard enough you’ll find a whole bunch of other square pegs who may be interested in making some new holes that you can fit in more easily. I always say if you feel like the only oddball at the party, you’re at the wrong party.

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      1. Saturn in XII, Uranus and Neptune in Ascendant, Pluto in XI. I had to re-add the outer planets to my chart to look this up. I don’t know about being an oddball. This could be a very accurate outside perspective I suppose but to me, it’s everyone else who seems odd. The only other person I know who had those planets Rx and in the same signs -minus Saturn and in different houses- also had a similar tendency of not really being able to connect with the world so easily.

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      2. From your Saturn and Neptune placements I would suggest a large sense of abandonment by the father, if not actual physical abandonment then at least energetically he wasn’t really the authority figure for you. As a result, you may have buried that part of you very deep in your subconscious, meaning you have (had?) to take the time to find out the boundaries of your own inner authority. This can be harder though, because of Neptune being retrograde. It rules the subconscious and for you, you’re gonna have to spend a lot of energy when you try to sift through things, but it’ll be worth it in the long run. You also have Pluto in the house ruled by Uranus, so maybe you felt like you abandoned humanity or they abandoned you. You have a lot of power to transform society, especially in the way they pursue knowledge and understanding. If you’re seeing that everyone else is odd, maybe you know something they don’t? As you spread your interesting and unique perspective with others, maybe it’ll rub off? You have Uranus in Sagittarius, the ruler of our intuition. Your gut may feel like it’s leading you in weird places, but they’re places that need visiting and understanding that maybe you can only understand.

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  2. Nice article! I have five, including Mercury, and life always seemed extra difficult for me. Most importantly, things seemed to come a bit too late. Fortunately, I’m Aries, and will be optimistic to the bitter end 🙂

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  3. You know, when I read your last reply I thought to my self, wait a moment, this is familiar, this is a person with Scorpio in the nodal axis. And of course, you had Scorpio in the north node! I’ve got Scorpio in my south node so it works differently but there are similarities.

    I can’t really speak about family members out in the open (south node Scorpio stuff) but yeah, authority and me never really mixed well. I equally dislike being led and leading others so there’s some balance there and I guess it means that the ultimate authority on my self is myself. Regarding humanity, I don’t know if I’d use the word abandonment to express how I view my relation to the whole. I usually just see that civilisation is taking many wrong paths but I rarely bother to express in detail what I see because there’s a Cassandra effect going on. Either no one wants to pay attention to warnings or they get defensive about it. I’m pretty sure that’s not exclusive to me or my chart though. I’ve only let my intuition really develop without restrictions after my Saturn return so this is still a work in progress. Definitely strange places but in a good way.

    By the way, have you considered the possibility that you’re picking these things up because of your intuition and not because of the outer planets? Intuition feels like logic sometimes but I’m starting to think that this is only because we instinctively wrap up intuition in familiar clothes to make sense of it.

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  4. I’m the same way about being led/leading. I honestly prefer to just walk my own path and hope people learn by example to do their own thing too.
    The feelings about society makes a lot of sense too. I tend to try to just put my ideas out there, but detach my ego when I post, that way it’s there when people are ready for it, but when it’s still controversial I don’t have to feel like it’s a direct attack on me. It’s just people reacting to a disruption in the status quo. I also always try to include some kind of positive alternative too. It’s hard to hear criticism if you don’t see a way to improve.
    I definitely feel like I’m picking these things up because of intuition, but I use astrology and logic to convey what I feel to others. Before I found astrology, I never had the words to express or even identify what I was feeling, so it made it hard for me to understand. We’re also a society that places so much emphasis on logic and empirical evidence that it’s hard to reach people when I tell them I just feel something strongly. When I can show them in their birth chart what would translate the energy I’m getting, they feel a little bit more convinced.

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    1. It seems that you’re describing how your MC in Pisces interacts with the Jupiter trine Mars there. Jupiter trine Mars should be the one thing we should look for when choosing a lawyer. In me, it ends up manifesting probably too strongly, still really hard to lose an argument against anyone but the way I express it is probably too blunt to change people’s minds. They end up being defensive. A Pisces MC plus Sun would probably be far more diplomatic and would find it easier to get the message across emotionally but since it’s probably more intuitive-based rather than fact or logic-based, as you said, you found it hard to express it in words. But Mars in Leo and Pisces Sun? Really fierce Mars there. I can’t even begin to imagine how it ties in with a Pisces MC and Sun. I tended to think of my own Jupiter trine Mars as a spiked gauntlet but they’re in Aquarius and Gemini. Yours must be like a similar gauntlet but dressed in a velvet glove. Do you ever remember losing an argument?

      Same Jupiter square Sun by the way. No fun that one. No fun at all.

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      1. I’ve only met a few people who can out argue me, they usually have strong Aquarius influences. They can be too detached from some issues for my liking. My mercury is in Aquarius and I find that helps a lot in turning my intuition into logic.
        I feel like my Mars is so un-fierce. I’m so afraid to assert myself because I was told from a very young age I should dedicate my time towards other’s needs. That’s changed a lot now. Those around me have learned they can no longer sway me once I set my sights on something. But it took some hard lessons on my part to get there.
        I find that my Venus in the seventh house conjunct Neptune helps with the diplomacy as well, but at the same time I can be too diplomatic. I can tell people no or reject them several times in a row and they never seem to get it because I say it in such a nice way. The velvet glove makes a lot of sense. I’m very smooth about how I seep into people’s souls at times. I really don’t even mean to do it most the time.
        I actually don’t mind Jupiter square my Sun all that much. I think that’s partly because of my Sun in the ninth house. Also, I find that mutable squares are really fun to work with. I never understood why they were considered harsh aspects. They are so go with the flow that conflict really doesn’t have to always arise. Fixed squares…those are a completely different ball game lol.
        I also tend to ignore trines in my chart, for some reason. I guess because they come so easy to me I don’t even recognize that the energy is there? I’m so used to facing obstacles in my life, that that’s where I focus my attention.

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  5. Great point about modality composition. I always forget that I’ve got mostly fixed and cardinal signs in my chart. One more flaw to add to it besides a lack of water, damn it. You’re right though, my square is fixed and it’s basically a little more complicated than that because Sun plus North Node are conjunct and fall on house V with Saturn in opposition to them. It’s a bit of a mess.

    Since I use the traditional essential dignities, I see Aquarius as the diurnal expression of Saturn, so their detachment and coldness makes sense. Re-assigning them to Uranus and ignoring the malefic/benefic distinction in modern astrology obscured that thing a bit.

    I was expecting that Mars Leo would win over Mercury Aquarius since you’ve got them opposed. Isn’t outer planet > inner planet the rule in oppositions? Maybe it’s actually a good thing that Leo is being somewhat tamed? In my case, Jupiter – Venus – Mars – Mercury don’t have any hard aspects among them so the whole thing flows well and the result is that Jupiter trining Mars gives Mars a lot of steam, Mars sextile Venus in Aries probably magnifies that, and eventually gets expressed into the world through a Mercury in Aries. You can imagine. I have no clue what it would be like if I had Leo in Jupiter at the start of this chain. At least my Venus and Mercury fall into my Fourth House so they’re really behaved little children. Mars in VI? Not quite so.

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    1. I’ve never been a fan of the malefic/benefic distinctions because I believe every placement can have a good or bad expression, but it’s up to us to chose which we play out. If we only tell ourselves a certain planet is bad, we will never look for the good, but if we leave the idea open…who knows what positives can come?
      Maybe that would be the case for Mars-Mercury, but again the retrograde throws things off. I feel like a Mars Rx in Leo naturally tries to act like an Aquarius, so it takes me having to actively try to correct the balance to swing my Mars towards Leo. This is hard to do when my mind is all focused in Aquarius.. It would make more sense to align my Mars with my Mercury, but it doesn’t work out for me.
      I think my Leo being tamed may be good for others, but it didn’t really help me out growing up. I’m a Pisces, so I’m very sensitive to the influence of others. My Leo Mars should of acted as my defense mechanism, but instead it was retrograde and I only internalized my anger for the sake of the group.

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      1. I don’t expect to convince you with this and I’m perfectly able to accept the existence of viewpoints different to mine but here goes. I’ve wrote a really long post on my blog about many of the problems I find in modern astrology, dignities and outer planets being two of them https://starryheaven.wordpress.com/2016/03/24/a-few-critical-observations-on-modern-astrology-from-a-friendly-perspective/ so instead of repeating everything, I can just link to it and let people decide whether they want to engage in any debates. But I can say something I haven’t mentioned in there and probably deserves its own post. Consider the Age of Pisces -I’m a little sceptical about astrological ages but w/e. We’d like to think that it hasn’t ended yet and that the Age of Aquarius is still somewhere on the horizon. Why? Because due to the association with Uranus, no one expects a Saturnian Age and instead they think it’s going to be a party.

        But if it is diurnal Saturnian, and judging by history alone, we’ve been in slow transition to it since the 1500s and we’ve been in it for the past couple of centuries. Instability, quick succession of ideologies without consistency, ideological wars, emotionless science etc. So in true optimistic Piscean fashion, maybe we are all -people who deal with astrology, divination, magic, religions- thinking we’re the forerunners of the new Age when in reality we’re the last embers and the real forerunners are the Dawkinses. Or you might be right.

        The Mars in Leo also has to deal with the watery Sun you’ve got. I’m not sure if having the oppositional element to your sun anywhere in the chart is really helpful in the long run. In your case, both AC and Sun are water but you’ve got plenty of fire in there. The opposition probably makes thing a little more difficult. MC Pisces means that you feel the Sun sign pretty strongly plus first decan in Pisces which tends to be extra emotional. I think focusing on the north node and trying to be more water rather than fall back to Taurean ways of rigidity will help you in general. Flexibility should be your talent. Taurus in the south node could easily explain bottling up rage and emotions. That’s normal Taurean behavior. If you tend to be very patient for a very long time until you eventually explode and the Leo finally roars, it’s the bull’s fault.

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      2. I think you had some good points in your article, but I do think we have some fundamental differences in philosophy that seem to create our disagreement. For example, in regards to the planets’ names, I think the coincidence of the name being what they are even in spite of people pulling for a different name does suggest powerful meaning. Not by a God necessarily, but I truly believe there are no coincidences. Either assigning the name created the planet’s meaning or the energy of the planet was ultimately influenced the end result.
        I also definitely think we’re already in the age of Aquarius, maybe not as early as the 1500s but at least in the last century. Pisces is long gone in my eyes. I’ve noticed it in the pulling away of religion mostly. We’re losing our blind following and are starting to think of it in more critical ways.
        I definitely see the Taurus come out. I think part of that is the second house influence too. I do have trouble not worrying about Taurean issues, but it is a work in progress. I actually do define flexibility as my greatest feature. I’m always growing and changing. Every single minute of the day.

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  6. There are just too many ways to argue against the new planets that if I start going on about them, I’ll never reach the end. But a quick example I can use to point out everything that’s wrong is how specific signs are already explained by the essential dignities without the outer planets. Aquarius detriment for example is in the Sun. So all Sun sign Aquarius natives exhibit the problem of a weakly expressed Sun unless other things in their charts help with it. If you add Uranus, it only serves to state the same thing in different words but the effect is the same. Or Pisces, with both detriment and fall in Mercury. If that weakness is pronounced in Pisces Sun natives, there’s absolutely no need for Neptune, the planet of illusion, imagination and deceit. Whereas in the traditional dignities the problems are clear, modern ones not just completely hide them but they make them into essential qualities and eventually the sign of Pisces that has Jupiter for ruler and is exalted in Venus, both great attributes, gets the bad rap of being the sign of drug addiction and nonsense like that. In any case, regarding astrological attributes traditionally seen as bad -although the system is far from being black and white-, it’s like saying there’s a wolf in the living room. Simply trying not to look at him or wishing him into a Chihuahua will still get you eaten.

    I can agree that the religious bearhug of the Age of Pisces wasn’t the best period in human history but I’m not so sure that an emotionless age where individuality is afflicted will be an actual improvement. The Piscean Age reached plenty of excesses, which isn’t strange considering Jupiter rules it but an Age with Saturn cannot be anything better. You’ve actually inspired me to write something about Saturn, so thanks for that.

    Taurean south node isn’t a bad south node. But I’ve found that the individual nodal axis takes years to understand and successfully using both north and south to your advantage can be pretty tricky. Good luck anyway.

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    1. I let intuition guide my astrology, and modern astrology is what feels right for me! You can find holes in anything if you look hard enough. I’d rather spend my time dedicated towards using what helps then try to figure out why it shouldn’t. It’s the first system I learned and it just flows. I’m down to add new information and understanding, but I still disagree with your views on the outer planets. To me it does help to understand Pisces through Neptune and Aquarius through Uranus. I don’t completely ignore that Jupiter and Saturn hold influence too, just that the new planets bring something new to the table. (I do think jupiter’s influence helps make Sag-Pisces square less painful) Neptune is known for dissolving the boundaries so you can get familiar with the substance. That is so Pisces to me! It explains why it’s so easy to feel manipulate: you’re picking up on energy that may not be yours, but if you don’t know about Neptune, you might still think it’s yours. When you know this is what naturally happens to you, you can take the time to be alone and define your own boundaries, that way the next time they dissolve you can tell what’s your energy and what’s theirs. You can now help them heal themselves without taking on the full burden of responsibility. I wouldn’t of been able to reach that point without an understanding of Neptune, yet that point has been very crucial in my happiness as a person.
      I’ll find the balance! I’ll always be a work in progress, so there’s no rush 🙂

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      1. Are we in the same time zone or something? You’re too quick with replies! Eh, I was going to avoid continuing this because I sense that it’s too important to you and you might feel that something is going to break if you start poking at it, and then you basically said that exact thing. But you say some pretty intellectually tempting things so I can’t resist.

        I’m not going to dispute the idea that Neptune brings more things to the table but I’m going to say that these things are actually in there already. You describe the exact associations yourself. Count how receptive Pisces can be considering the classical attributes: feminine, nocturnal, mutable, water, cold, wet and all of them expressed through the planet that stands as the active principle of creation: Jupiter. Exalted Venus is again, creation in the passive form, receptivity and attraction. This sign, as a cosmic expression, is extremely receptive and passive and all of these things fit with your description.

        But I’ve got an honest question here. Neptune in modern astrology is clearly not Poseidon. He’s not the Roman Neptune either. So who or what exactly do you think the planet Neptune really is? I’m very curious because what you said about dissolving boundaries is basically, Hermes’s domain. He knows where all the boundaries are and loves to transcend them.

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      2. I’m in eastern time zone, USA. Its 5:50 am here, but I have an odd schedule.
        And I agree, you can probably get the same understanding of Pisces in many different ways, Neptune was just what reached me first.
        I have noticed that the mythology of Neptune doesn’t play strongly in my interpretation of it (though I have seen books on how the myths do play in). I see Neptune as our connection to the unconscious collective though. Uranus is the conscious collective: what human beings and society need for continued survival, often times this comes in large changes. Neptune takes that one level deeper to ask what our souls need. I see it as a portal to our subconscious, which inevitably if we explore it deep enough we find how we are all inherently connected, that we are all just souls trying to get through life and not suffer. I know Neptune represents the ocean, so maybe that plays in. When you go to the beach, you have your own little section that may feel private to you, but if you were to actually fully explore all the water available, you would see how far it truly spreads.
        Neptune offers the chance for unconditional understanding of others. That’s why it’s so easy to be deceived by it, when you don’t know your self. When you do know how to harness the powers though, unconditional love (Venus-Pisces :)) is a powerful thing.

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  7. Different continent then. I’m not going to go into how the Poseidon myths fit in or don’t in my view, it’s basically a mystical subject that traditionally gets discussed only at night and in Winter so we’re in the wrong season for something so heavy -and understanding myth takes serious and time-consuming work in general- but I’m going to half-jokingly ask this. How do you think Amphitrite fits in with Pisces? I mean, okay, the constellation is basically Aphrodite and Eros turning themselves into fishes to escape Typhon but on an indirectly relevant level, Amphitrite is the traditional queen of the sea and sea creatures, far less rough than her husband who causes earthquakes when he’s angry, described as “loud-moaning” so she tends to cry really audibly and also as “ox-eyed” which in ancient Greek wasn’t a negative description but a positive one, wide-eyed with a calm gaze, also said of Hera. So she’s got the eyes too. She also tends to flee a lot from all sorts of pursuers.

    Meaning this in a light-hearted way, not a mean-spirited one. I kinda have experience on how Pisces is expressed in mortals.

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    1. Pisces/Neptune energy always felt a little androgynous to me. I’ve seen its influence in a lot of gender fluid, non-gender, or transgender people. I unfortunately don’t know as much about mythology as I’d like, but I do think that Amphitrite’s archetype would play in perfectly with Pisces. The wide-eyed with a calm gaze specifically resonated with me. My eyes are so Jupiter. I think she represents the feminine archetype of Pisces well, but I wouldn’t discredit Poseidon’s more masculine interpretation of the energy. Pisces energy is very fluid, so if it is around masculine energy it will take on some of those traits. I’ve noticed, in my own experience with mortal Pisces, that females tend to be the manipulated while the males tend to manipulate. I’ve noticed that while the females are comfortable expressing their astrologically feminine energy in a societal feminine way, males have more trouble aligning astrologically feminine energy with societal masculine ideals. Because Pisces men, as they are growing up, are often told to man up they have to use their energy to outwardly manipulate, rather than direct it inward. To me, this would result in the Poseidon’s earthquakes, or explain his promiscuity. Pisces men are able to outwardly seduce in a way that you may not even realize you are being seduced, sometimes causing chaotic effects. Pisces women, on the other hand, may have the tendency to unintentionally seduce, and then flee, like you said with Amphitrite, when they release what they have done. They are also more likely to try to save those around them, while Pisces males tend to extend their energy out to be saved. This of course is just my own experience with Pisces, so others may disagree. We are a complex sign, in my opinion, we are so fluid that it can be hard to explicitly pin us down, even for myself.

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      1. I don’t really like to view Sun signs in terms of their expression in mortal natal charts because they’ll always be mixed and even if some person had everything in Pisces, they’d still be less than the sign in its ideal form. But you’re tempting me to consider some tentative observations I inadvertently made, without always having the chance to review the full charts. Which means that I feel what I’m about to say might be completely irrelevant to the truth but anyway.

        Yes, I’ve noticed frequent Piscean elements in non-binary gendered people. You can imagine I’m attributing that to a mutable Venusian quality. And the eyes, well, it’s a tell-tale sign many times although I’m half-way between attributing them to a Sun or an Asc in Pisces. It’s also a pretty easy to hide characteristic. Watch the Die Hard films and you’ll never see Willis or Rickman show it. Watch the Sixth Sense and it’s almost constant, especially during the famous “I see dead people walking around like regular people”. But I’ve also seen the same thing in a few other signs, Taurean females with a strong Sun when they let their guard down for example. I’m pretty sure that Sun sign Pisceans who feel their Suns strongly are perfectly aware of it, judging by that line in Heart-shaped Box that goes “she eyes me like a Pisces when I’m weak”.

        I also made very similar observations regarding Piscean males, although again I’m not sure if it can be directly attributed to their Suns. Many people who make lots of money by playing tough guys are Pisceans. Chuck Norris, Daniel Craig, Kurt Russell etc. Bryan Cranston played a completely driven psychopath in Breaking Bad and Piscean contributions to the role were unmistakeable although my theory is that the archetype for Walter was more of a Taurus – Scorpio venomous mix than a Pisces. The other guy seemed more Piscean because he cried a lot and got constantly bullied by Walter. Even Alan Rickman who didn’t regularly specialise as the tough guy, played a borderline evil, emotionless Severus quite spotlessly. That’s after playing a ruthless, unemotional villain in Die Hard. By the way, I think that his crowning achievement was A Winter Guest and not his tough guy roles. I find the tough guy persona hilarious so I can never take roles like those seriously.

        I tend to interpret that, if I can really separate the Sun from everything else in a chart, which in itself is a huge problem, as defence mechanisms due to inherent sensitivity. This also happens with strong Sun Scorpios of any gender who tend to play up the badboy image that their sign has acquired in modern times as a way of pre-emptively warning others that they’ll sting back if they need be. Frankly, I think that this is something very stupid to do because people tend to take this seriously enough to be suspicious of Sun signs even when they don’t always matter the same in different charts. So they end up creating mistrust of themselves and end up paying for it. It’s also a distortion of how Scorpio gets the Martian influence. It’s inwardly afflicting above all, even if as people they are capable of harm just like many others.

        But I wouldn’t call these things necessarily deceptive. Is water lying about its true shape because it always forms according to the container you put it in? It’s hard to pin down the shape of mutable Water in particular because it doesn’t have a shape. It’s one of the qualities it will acquire from the environment, other aspects of the chart in this instance or other people. It’s defined by its lack of shape which in a way, is a shape in itself.

        The whole thing with these supposedly Neptunian elements of deception and illusion is that they’re poisonous socially. Repeat it enough times and anyone who has just a little knowledge of astrology who comes into contact with Pisces Suns for example, will necessarily feel suspicious and mistrustful of them in case they’re being deceptive, lying or huge cheaters. I don’t think that these things are inherent in Pisces as a sign any more than dictatorships and genocide are inherent in the sign of Taurus. This is why I find the whole attribution of Pisces to Neptune as a damaging and unfair association. Sure, Pisceans can lie and pretend and cheat and murder and do any sort of vile thing but I see no reason to believe that’s due to their nature. Every sign can be deceptive and those people who play up specific Sun signs as supposedly extremely honest like Sagittarius, Taurus and Aquarius seem to have a completely dreamy image of how natives of those Sun signs really act. My own personal experience for example is that in most Sagittarians I’ve met, the tendency to exaggerate and make up fables is huge. Honesty isn’t only bluntly pointing out ugly truths about others. Usually, it’s people who are just in love with their own signs or their compatible signs, letting their biases influence their objectivity by favoring what they personally like and slandering what they don’t.

        No wonder water signs get the brunt of this sort of systematised badmouthing when you realise that both Air and Fire signs are very likely to consider Water natives as untrustworthy and dislikeable. My Earth side disapproves of these shenanigans.

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      2. I agree that Sun signs are way too vague, but I was just pointing out general trends. Interestingly enough, Neptune rules movies. I think the mutable water allows Pisces to take on roles in films that they wouldn’t normally fulfill in real life. From what I remember, Alan Rickman was a wonderfully nice man. He does have a Scorpio moon though, which was probably where he drew from to fuel his dark characters. Movies are a good outlet for Pisces I imagine because we all have dark energy in us, but Pisces really doesn’t want to hurt anyone. Movies are a way to acknowledge our shadows without letting them completely consume us (usually).
        I actually normally associate the eyes with my Sagittarius Moon. I feel like it gives me a sense of knowing innocence and I’ve noticed a trend of moon signs strongly influencing our eye expression.Pisces Moons seem to give off a more dreamy innocence, like the world can be too harsh so they just keep soft clouds in their eyes to soften the blow.
        The water signs are definitely defensive. Cancer just as much as Pisces and Scorpio. It makes sense though. These signs typically experience a lot of hurt because of their vulnerability. Sooner or later they are going to build up some kind of protection.
        I like the way you describe shapelessness as a shape itself. Its an interesting perspective that actually clears up some stuff in my personal life.
        In regards to the negative Neptune traits being unfairly associated with Pisces, every sign has stereotypical problems. Gemini’s are known for being two faced and flighty, but that is just because Mercury prefers to move in quick bursts. The energy for longevity isn’t always there. Yes, some Gemini’s may be two faced, but the issue goes deeper then that. Yes some Pisces may be deceptive and liars, embracing the negative Neptune traits , but when you understand what Neptune is doing behind the scenes to make them that way you can realize there is more then meets the eye. Usually the deception Pisces play out is because of pain. I’m guilty of that myself. I feel like there is a large fear concerning Neptune, and personally I’ve set out to offer new perspectives that make Neptune an ally rather than a foe. It’s funny that Neptune itself rules deception and illusion as we as a whole are often deceived by its very nature. All Neptune wants us to do is look past the illusions of reality that we see and get to what is deeper.
        The water signs to get a bad rap, but its because they are so largely misunderstood. Fear and hate is a product of ignorance in my opinion. That’s why Neptune is so important to me. Its a portal to understanding yourself, and once you understand your soul you can’t help but extend that empathy outward to others. It’s not a easy journey to find yourself by any means. Digging through your subconscious can be very painful, but I find that Neptune brings positive rewards in return.

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